Not gone away, mum hasn’t been able to book anywhere at such short notice. Went to Bible study last night and have major issues to deal with. We read the first chapter of Romans and at the end it says about worshiping the image of man and turning to gay sex. Our leader said it was one of the chapters they don’t usually read in church because it deals with difficult issues but he was deffinitely anti gay and it’s left me wondering whether I am choosing to be gay or was created gay.
I can think back to when I was much younger an I used to fantasize about boys. So I’m fairly sure I’ve been like this for most if not all of my life it’s not that I just hit puberty and thought hey boys are cuter than girls.
Worshiping the image of man was another biggy. It is a generally accepted fact that all the boys in our group have problems with internet porn. We went to a weekend earlier this year part of which dealt with the issue. They got everyone in the place on their feet and then told us to sit down if we had never looked at porn on the internet. Then they said to sit down if we hadn’t looked at porn in the last month. Pretty much every boy and some of the girls were still on their feet and we all prayed together but it didn’t stop me looking since. So I know that all the guys at church are looking at online porn just the same as me. Well, okay, maybe not the same images I’m looking at, but all the same we’re all at it and that was what it meant in the Bible about worshiping the image of man at least thats my belief.
Our leader didn’t focus on this though, he was all for condeming gays. Managed to argue agains him without announcing that I was one of the ones he was targeting. You see the passage doesn’t just stop at gays it goes on about other sins and I said there would be other people who would be equally uncomfortable with this because we’re none of us perfect and we all sin. But then the last line says we know we shouldn’t do these things but we still do them and we approve of others who do them too.
I don’t want to go on about religion. I know it can cause lots of bad feeling. Here’s where my church stands on gay relationships. It’s okay to be gay but not to have gay sex. So I’m alright with God just as long as I don’t go doing anything. Hey, if I was a catholic I’d be goin to hell for some of the things I think about. It’s about love the sinner but hate the sin as our leader put it. But is it okay for me to love another boy and by this I don’t mean get into their pants, I mean be concerned for them, love them like a hetro couple?
Been reading Steevo’s comments, of which there are quite a few and thanx Steevo for reading my blog and leaving your comments. He sez I need to get over the guilt of looking at cocks and wanking. Now is that what I need or is Steevo doing what the Bible says and approving of others and me doing things I/we know we shouldn’t do? That God man sure don;t make life simple.
I can think back to when I was much younger an I used to fantasize about boys. So I’m fairly sure I’ve been like this for most if not all of my life it’s not that I just hit puberty and thought hey boys are cuter than girls.
Worshiping the image of man was another biggy. It is a generally accepted fact that all the boys in our group have problems with internet porn. We went to a weekend earlier this year part of which dealt with the issue. They got everyone in the place on their feet and then told us to sit down if we had never looked at porn on the internet. Then they said to sit down if we hadn’t looked at porn in the last month. Pretty much every boy and some of the girls were still on their feet and we all prayed together but it didn’t stop me looking since. So I know that all the guys at church are looking at online porn just the same as me. Well, okay, maybe not the same images I’m looking at, but all the same we’re all at it and that was what it meant in the Bible about worshiping the image of man at least thats my belief.
Our leader didn’t focus on this though, he was all for condeming gays. Managed to argue agains him without announcing that I was one of the ones he was targeting. You see the passage doesn’t just stop at gays it goes on about other sins and I said there would be other people who would be equally uncomfortable with this because we’re none of us perfect and we all sin. But then the last line says we know we shouldn’t do these things but we still do them and we approve of others who do them too.
I don’t want to go on about religion. I know it can cause lots of bad feeling. Here’s where my church stands on gay relationships. It’s okay to be gay but not to have gay sex. So I’m alright with God just as long as I don’t go doing anything. Hey, if I was a catholic I’d be goin to hell for some of the things I think about. It’s about love the sinner but hate the sin as our leader put it. But is it okay for me to love another boy and by this I don’t mean get into their pants, I mean be concerned for them, love them like a hetro couple?
Been reading Steevo’s comments, of which there are quite a few and thanx Steevo for reading my blog and leaving your comments. He sez I need to get over the guilt of looking at cocks and wanking. Now is that what I need or is Steevo doing what the Bible says and approving of others and me doing things I/we know we shouldn’t do? That God man sure don;t make life simple.
11 comments:
If religion is important to you, you should feel free to blog about it. Religion is important to me too, and I'm glad you care about it. I'm glad you have faith, and I hope you'll hold on to it.
The Catholic Church agrees with your church that it's okay to be gay but not to have gay sex. As for thoughts, you have to appreciate the difference between temptation and sin. Straight guys find girls attractive the same way you find guys attractive. So you can't help noticing that someone is good looking. But for gay and straight, there is the problem of attraction turning to lust of the sort that Jesus calls "adultery in the heart." It can't be simple attraction, or we'd all be going to hell. It must be a deliberate choice to make the person an object rather than respecting him or her as God's image. For example, using someone else to get aroused, as people can with pornography, or deciding to have anonymous sex, one night stands, or things like that — anything where you are concerned mainly about getting your own pleasure without really caring about what is good for the other person — these things where you wish to use the other person simply for your own gratification are lust. Again, I'm not talking about a momentary impulse, which is temptation, but a settled choice.
So even apart from the question of gay sex, we all have our temptations, which are not sins, and we all have to accept the grace of God which enables us to overcome those temptations.
Don't expect it to be easy to give up porno. Habits are hard to break. And bad habits may be even harder to break than good ones. But try to find other things to do with your time. If you find yourself starting to head toward porno, ask God to help you turn away to something good. And if you fail, be sure to ask for his forgiveness, and be assured that he gives it to you as he does to everyone who sincerely repents. He sees into your heart and knows if you are trying to do what is right and avoid what is evil. He knows our weaknesses. In Catholic theology, we say that the seriousness of a sin depends on three things: how bad the thing is in itself (killing someone is worse than stealing ten quid), whether we know how bad it is (if you've never been told that something is a sin, if you have no way of knowing, God doesn't hold it against you), and finally the degree of freedom with which we choose it (if someone holds a gun to your mother's head and says he'll kill her unless you unlock a store you have the keys to which he is going to rob, you are not guilty as you would be if you did it without coercion). So if you've got a habit which you're trying to overcome, you aren't as free as someone who has not developed the habit. I think it's easier to be forgiven when you are fighting strong impulses than when you're cold-bloodedly choosing to do something wrong.
So don't be discouraged. Try to cooperate with God's grace. Let him remake you through the redeeming power of Jesus Christ's life, death, and resurrection. Realize that it may be immediate, or it may take time, but keep your heart fixed on him.
This is long enough and I've got to go. Wanking will have to be a topic for another comment some other time.
I sense I have a guardian angel, where did you come from naturgesetz? Lots of sound advice. Thanks for taking the trouble to comment and for the encouragement. Say hi to the Big Guy for me. :)
WG
Sorry to hear yo are not going away but maybe next week. Yo uask if yo uare chosing tobe gay r not and well for me i know i was born this way. I also have to believe God created me this way andthat i am made in his image
catholic church like Naureguez, who remains a memeber a was brought up cathlic and well i have to believe god created me and i have had these thoughts and feelings since i was a child
I also think there is a difference betweenworshiping an image and and loving another. I am of the belief that all ov is good even the love we feel.
Porn ok somaybe that isnt the best thing ot do and maybe we could all use a little lessbut if watching porn is what sends us to hell then heaven maybe a loney place
like the lst line says we all do wrong so belive it has to be more then just watching porn that is wrong.
And yes im glad you realize that anti gay people have a way of choosing the words they want from the bible in order to support their beliefs.
I wonder they why they dont use the wordsof Christ against us. well maybe cause he never did speak out against us
And speak to eligion all you want thir are sevral blggers who focus on it. I simply also disagree with yor churc for if God created me and gav me thoughts and elings then he doesnt want me to live inisper i believe
Steevo is a nice guy also and ther alots of good peoples here
take care and be safe
bob
Hey, Whitegoods. Maybe it was a guardian angel. I was reading Peter's Blog — http//gayboyfrompa.blogspot.com — and I noticed a link to your blog with the post titled "Bare all" and I decided to see what that was all about. I have no idea where Peter found you. So it looks as if it could have been someone leading me to you. I hope I can be helpful.
Thanks for the kind words. I'll say hi to the Big Guy for you, and I hope you'll return the favor and say hi for me.
WG
I guess that may have been me as i told peter about yuo. NG though is one of the kindest and nicest people around here and well i myself am indebted to him for his words of advice
take cara nd be safe
bob
Not all Christian denominations or people hold the same opinion of what scripture says or does not say about homosexuality.
You know what your church teaches but I encourage you to look further.
Here are a couple of resources:
What the Bible says and
means about homosexuality
A Letter to Louise:
A Biblical Affirmation of Homosexuality
I cannot accept that a God who allegedly loves his people would make people gay then turn around and deny them the love, companionship and physical intimacy that straights are allowed.
I was in a similar situation recently, when I accompanied my Mom to her church while visiting her.
The sermon was about living in sin, but for some reason the focus was specifically on gay people and how they are all going to hell. The reverend used all sorts of passages from the Bible to support his speech. What struck me most about it, was the fact that according to him, gay people are going to spend eternity in hell...
But he was not.
I was livid and uncomfortable, but I sat there in silence, (what else could I do?) I mean, I've lived my life alone. I have no bf or husband because I denied myself these things, thinking it made me a bad person, and here I was being condemned anyway over something I didn't choose, would never have chosen in a million years, and could do nothing about now.
... and then, to top it all off, there was my Mom, the person I should be going to when I need support, sitting beside me, reading the passages mentioned, and nodding her head in agreement as to the fate of all gay people.
How am I supposed to feel at that?
I'll not be going back there.
wow---
I never got back to follow up on yer posts. Too much going on and many new guys here.
Ngetz I respect a great deal. He is sincere, kind, thoughtful, and principled.
BUT we simply disagree on a basic point that will likely never change.
My dad's best friend is a priest, Ngetz's age, is adamantly gay friendly, a pastor on a wonderful bay area parish and tells me that almost many many priests of his 1960s generation [if not most] do not agree with the church's position on homosexuality. They just stay below the radar and do all they can to promote love and acceptance and let god judge. The church has changed its position on many what we considered fundamental issues. Ask gallileo.
When I push Ngetz to the wall and ask him if dan and i r living sinful lives he cant say yes. He sorta begs off. Sez he cant judge 2 particular people he does not know that well. If the principles are so clear and perfect and basic i wonder why not?
Dan and I are faithful to each other, we dont "use" each other as sex objects, except by mutual playful consent. That concept of sex is so unrelated to reality.
And I wonder how a celibate closeted man can know what a mature responsible stable gay relationship is all about. If you have never tasted the "fruit" *bad pun* how can you comment on what it tastes like or what to do with it? Yes, yes, "god tells us so". Well to that many well respected religious leaders and I say... BUNK! God created us with natural instincts that if responding to them in responsible ways and do not harm someone... are just part of us... whats the problem? If god is truth and made us thinking beings... capable of judgment... should not basic concepts of good and evil make sense? As in rational and logical.
Somewhere the "bible sez" by their actions or fruits u shall know them. Good people do good things. Jesus gave us two commandments that cover it all. Simple, Love god... love your neighbor, i.e. all humans.
So in my heart I KNOW that what dan and i do in bed [and elsewhere!]is an expression of the love and devotion we have for each other and the pleasure we give each other makes our relationship all the better. Now and then our physical love takes us to a unique other world almost unreal place. We r transported not just to extreme sexual heights, but that too. I suspect that is when we almost "touch the divine". That is evil?
Biologically, when a boy is 14 or 15 or ??? and learning about sexuality he wanks a lot. That is learning how his body works and there is NO medical/scientific/rational reason to say it is bad.
So I say if someone thinks being gay is, well "OK", but dont DO anything gay... I say what? That god must be a mean one then.
I better not hiJACK yer blog. I could have written a much more concise and well reasoned comment, but it would be too hard to do that. XD
So look at the thrust of my ideas, not how perfectly I write.
do u have msn yet?
Maybe ngetz is just one guardian angel... maybe god is bringing you here to see a DIFFERENT way to see things.
invite me
steevo
.
.
.
re:porn
I dont think its a major evil sin. Or even bad unless overused as a almost constant escape from REAL people and REAL life.
Like desert maybe? Or candy? Too much is bad, but it wont kill ya? --And if it is one way to have some pleasure and not hurt anyone... well idk ---hummmmm. Wanking is almost universal among males, so... I can see that porn can be mostly harmless for a kid 14 to look at as long a he/she realizes it is almost all fantasy and really fake.
B4 we had science to understand biology, long time ago, they thot it was bad cuz the jizz contained teeny tiny lil babies and so jizzin in th dirt was knda like killing babies. weird. yeah very.
one of the unfortunate aspects of religion is to assume that ne thing that fun must be bad.
Its like an imagination "aide" maybe?
i say relax and enjoy but dont get lost in it.
steevo
.
.
.
If you are committed to staying a member of a christian church, choose one that doesn't condemn you for what truly are inate preferences. Yesterday the Lutherin church approved the ordination of gays as priests who were in committed relationships, and the Episcopalians (some of them, at least) have ordained a non-celibate bishop.
Or you can give up all the baggage of church and decide to live a good life and be nice to people. Whatever you do, don't ever let anyone get away with saying you are a sinner because of who you are and with whom you decide to sleep.
@j: --- "...one that doesn't condemn you for what truly are innate preferences."
OK, j, not to nit-pick but for the sake of the gay boys and men here who r really struggling, the word "preferences" can be seen as feeding into the rightwing h-phobes who say we have chosen to be gay, so we can do reparative therapy, pray "like hell" and "...POOF*!!!" No more queer. My ass! *just for dan...* BUT YES innate fits perfectly! XD
One of the initial fundamental ideas newbies [term of affection!] have to deal with is WhyTF am i gay?
Orientation means hardwired.
Make sense?
Then too, if we r bi, we CAN choose. BUT so what? Being gay is not sinful or evil or nasty or ucky! IT IS JUST PART OF THE _natural_ DIVERSITY in human males. Always has been, in all cultures, as far back as we can trace such things. And some cultures consider the queers special, as in favored by the gods cuz they can do "more".
*steps down from pulpit; gets another beer as he watches SF@COL.
[baseball game] XD
*great pun, huh?
steevo
.
.
. [coyedics] shy penises?
lol
Post a Comment